Thursday, August 25, 2011

Townhall: Water

Townhall - Water

PANELISTS
* Bill Richardson, Former Governor of New Mexico
* Pat Mulroy, General Manager, Southern Nevada Water Authority
* Grady Gammage Jr., Senior Sustainability Scholar, ASU Global Institute of Sustainability, and Senior Research Fellow, ASU Morrison Institute for Public Policy
* Heidi Cullen, Host, Forecast Earth, and Research Scientist and Correspondent, Climate Central
* Moderator: Anne Thompson, Chief Environmental Affairs Correspondent, NBC News



Africa - 1 in 3 have no regular access to clean water.

Sustainability is the issue of this age.

Most water usage by Americans (150 gallons a day) is used to flush toilets, taking showers, baths, etc.

Heidi Cullen - Fresh water sources are stressed
Population growth is impacting fresh water levels a lot.
Climate change is part - but climate has always been changing.

Pat Mulroy - Most of water in Las Vegas is used outside (70%). Southern Nevada reduced water usage by 1/3 despite population growth. We use way too much water per capita. Largest users of water in the world.
We have to change.

HC - The southwest would have water issues even without climate change

Grady Gammage Jr - City of Phoenix today uses same water as it did a decade ago. 1/2 of water goes to agriculture in Tucson/Phx corridor. He thinks agriculture gives us a buffer. We lower their use to keep city use normal. We are going to lose this buffer in the coming decades.

Bill Richardson - This is a huge international issue about to explode. Some areas- crisis situation. Somalia is example. 28k children dead in last 2 months from water and political issues. Other areas- too much water (Bangladesh). Lives are threatened with rising water.

GG - Political challenge in the world is great. Senses that we have lost our collective will in this country to build things (canals, dams, etc). We would build stuff that would help the country function. The collective will isn't there.

PM - This is really an issue.

HC - Part of the challenge for this generation is to do the smaller stuff. Efficiency. Recirculating. Using brakkish water.

BR - We are not bringing in climate change as much as we need to into water planning.

Moderator- we've become a society that is all about me- to heck with you. How do we build a concensus?

GG - California is the Big 'them' for Arizona

PM - Look at the Colorado rivershed. Guess what? We are all interconnected.

HC - We decided what was normal in the early 1900s. What was normal in the 1900s is not normal now.

BR - You can't keep governments and politicians out of this, it is not going to happen. We have to encourage better Federal and State cooperation. Relatively good relationships exist between compact members. We need to find ways to settle a lot of these tribal issues that have been around for 100 years.

Opening up to audience

Question (from audience) - Haley Paul - 20th century was big dams and canal projects. What of the 21st century. what is the next wave? (listed off ideas of catchment, reuse, etc)

PM -All the above. Lots of different pieces. Will depend on where you are. Singapore is all about reuse and desalin plants.
#1 usage of water in country is not agriculture- it is power. Must lower demand by customers (of power).

GG- Politically this is a real challenge.

PM - Federal Government needs to echo what comes from the state so message is same.

BR - Can't have sensible water policies without climate change and renewable energy. Have to shift from fossil fuels to renewable energy- which uses less water. Have to have a dramatic reduction in green house emmissions. Has to be a connection, action on climate change at State and Federal level. Lot of states wait on Federal Government to act- who isn't.

Quiz: Water covers 70% of planet. What percentage is fresh? 
(Answer) 2.5 %
2/3 of that is locked up in ice

Break

Conflicts over water at home and abroad

(Video showing Vegas trying to take water from northern Nevada towns.)

PM - Nevada has the toughest ground water usage laws in the country. 90% of Nevada water comes from Colorado. If Lake Meade hits 1075 or 1025, Nevada loses their water. [Lost connection briefly so missed full quote]

BR - Our region will have the most water shortages. Our compacts. If you want to stay alive politically, you don't mess with the compacts. He ran for president and 'water sunk it'. Maybe we need a water czar to oversee water in country. He wanted to look at some relationships or compacts where we could pull water from Great Lakes.

GG - Seems to think journalists from back East thinks moving water long distances is a bad thing.

Moderator - Why should 'we' (Great Lakes) give up our water to you, who lives in a desert?

PM - One man's flood control project is another man's water supply. Talked of flooding in Missouri and Mississippi, sending water from west to east for Kansas and Nebraska farming.

HC - Compact was drawn up during a really wet period. People think flooding in the midwest is going to become normal

GG - We need to get past territorial issues. The desert is a good place to live, great place to grow crops- birthplace of civilization.

PM - Points out that large cities up north (NYC, San Francisco) pipe water 100s of miles. There is rarely enough water in that location to service the community (city)- citing Chicago as an exception. Do we really want to sprawl people everywhere, or do we build more urban and more dense (cities)? Her point was about building sustainable communities.

BR - 1/3 of population lives near coastal cities.

GG - Will never forgive himself if he does not go back to the idea of a water czar - not convinced that is a good idea. Bigger picture decision making is a good idea. We in AZ have made a lot of decisions about water -and it is made in many places. Thinks centralizing water decision making is not a really good idea.

Quiz - Where should water resources go?
1. Cities and town
2. Business
3. Agriculture

Question from audience - Colorado River Compact has a system to deliver water - is it going to continue to work? With population growth, etc?

BR - It is going to continue. How much longer? Depends on population, water, etc. Thinks we need to preserve our ecosystem (animals, etc). Who is making federal policy on water?

Audience member asking question - Bureau of Reclamation

BR - Them and US Army Corp of Engineers..[sorry, I missed the others] We don't have any federal entity that says 'this is our policy', find out our policy on the Colorado River.

Moderator - If Federal Government can't agree on policy of climate change, how will it figure it out with water?

PM - When you look at the compact, it allows 7 states to do whatever 7 states can agree to do- but they cannot roll each other no matter how big they are. The compact is evolving. The minute it stops changing, it gets rigid and will break.

GG - It has changed more than people realized (the compact).

Quiz(Answer from audience) 45% city, 18% manu, 41% farming

PM - Thinks this is a terrible question. We need all 3! "I like eating. Look at my hips. I like eating!" There are no easy answers out there.

HC - The concept that the environment should be pitted against the economy is false. We need sustainabilty so they can work together.

Break

Global water issues - powerful video on drought in North Kenya

HC - The places we expect to see most trouble - Mediterreanean, Middle East, here in the southwest.

Moderator - They say the wars of the 21st century will be fought over water. Is this so?

BR - Yes. I want to commend NBC for consistantly covering Africa. when we are talking about climate change, crisis, Africa is the center piece.

Question (audience) - Nalani Chhetri - An article came out that established links with conflicts due to El Nino. This effect has doubled number of conflicts. Question - What is it, what kind of science, what kind of report gets picked up by the Media, and Government, and what does not? And what we can we do in Academia to help make this leap into policy?

PM - Great believer in ASU's Decision Theater. When you say this is going to happen, they can conceptualize it different. but when they see it happen, and what happens, they can see the result of their decision.

HC - When you look back over history, part of my focus was on paleoclimate. The industry didn't want to assign climate to reasons for culture collapse. This isn't the sexiest story, but these play out over incredible time scales. (Analogy of turning the oil tanker)

GG - Comment on report 'Watering the Sun Corridor'

BR - Heard of what has happened in Arab Spring - populations exploding over heads of state. This wasn't done by traditional media- but by social media. He is suggesting using alternative media as much as you can- get involved. If you want to raise awareness- run for office.

Moderator - #changingplanet on twitter

Break

Video - 1 in 3 homes has a pool in Phoenix. Conservation now has to be part of solution. Americans are using water more efficiently that we have in the past. This may not be enough for Phoenix.

Moderator - Americans are using water more efficiently. We use less water than we did in 1980- not per capita- a total usage.
Fears water could run out in next 25 years.

GG - (Addressing Arizona) Thinks people have perception water will run out. We have too robust a water system. We need to decide if population growth is most important thing for economy? If so, we need to modify our lifestyle. If not, then we need to discourage growth. That's a tough balance, and we have not kept up with that. The track we are on would price agriculture out of business within 25 years.

Moderator - Pat?

PM - Technology will play role in this. LA has adopted new water resource plan. Entire new resource supply in next 25 years is reuse and conservation. We used to look at water as something to throw away. We can't do that anymore.

Moderator - Governor?

BR - I think what is important ... the science. We need to find more ways to protect endangered species, impact fee on developers. More info on droughts. A drought info system to share. Develop an internet portal of Federal and State governments on data sharing so we can each share data on water allocation, reuse, recycle, etc. We don't have that.

GG - Price? Yes, water should be more expensive. We don't charge for water. We put a cost for delivery of water. Las Vegas' water is dirt cheap. Phoenix is in the middle of pack for price. The most expensive is Seattle (no need for outdoor use for water in wet seattle). Depending on where you are in US, how do you price water that is above basic human existance? Should industrial water be cheaper than other?

PM - Problem with GG's theory. If everyone earned the same money, then you are right. Her biggest customer was a Sultan. What do you charge him? He doesn't care. So only the poor should have to conserve, GG?

GG - But most people will care. Most people are not that wealthy.

Question (audience) - John Sabo - Agriculture uses 80% of water in the West, half goes to crops via irrigation. Farmers produce great food very cheaply. It would seem prudent to implement water efficieny, but doing this would raise prices on food. How do we do this without the impact of prices?

BR - I don't know

PM - Talks of having to pull salt from the soil in Imperial Valley. Lots of water wasted on this. Remember when we decided to grow our way out of the energy crisis? We don't have enough water to grow our way out (in the West). Now those in Mid West switched from growing wheat to growing corn. Those in california turned from alfalfa to wheat. This is more water intensive.

GG - We have made food policy bad. Ground water is so subsidized to pump, it doesn't make sense. AZ has program to make surface water more available to farmers- doing this would require farmers to use more efficient water techniques.

BR - The farmer in this country are hurting. Talk of removing 'subsidies' during this economy. We don't make it worse for them. I'm going to yield to you, the scientist, for the answer. You tell me?

(Audience question) John Sabo - Life style choice of pricing and allocation. Tiered water pricing. A tax that is used to fund programs to fund reclaimed water systems.

Break

Who will lead these efforts?

Question (from audience) - Collin Tetreault - All of your thoughts on what role industry and business has in the water paradigm. public policy? R and D?

GG - There are industries in AZ that are working on this- such as golf courses [are you kidding?]. There is a water company that is almost exclusively engaged in water reuse- development (purple pipes) using reclaimed water. He has clients speculating in water business, now. Market functions do serve a purpose

BR - Industry needs to lead the way. to work with schools like ASU. If you promote sustainability in private sector, you can win out. Industry can take the lead in R and D.

HC - Industry needs market signals, needs government to put this in place.

PM - There is one role for industry. They have a leadership role. One way she had success was to go directly to business community. Depoliticize it and make it a real issue.

Moderator - Quiz - What you would do to reduce water consumption?:
1 Take shorter showers
2 Plant native plants (GG says most effective)
3 Was car less often
4 Flush toilet less

GG - Says new report that water usage is about 50% out of home, now, here in AZ (not 70%)

Question - Water management community has bourne brunt of budget cuts in economy. Wondering what strategies they are to cope with lack of money and brain drain. Will this be long term? Privatize?

GG - Arizona Department of Water Resources has been savaged by budget cuts. One solution was to ask cities to step up and keep them functioning.

BR - Look what happened with debt limit negotiations- 10 year decrease in Federal spending. what does that mean? local, local, local. More citizen participation. levees. enormous growth issues. Federal Government, Congress took a walk for 10 years.

Question (from audience) - Will Greene - The CAP is pumped by Navajo Station (largest coal plant in us). Giving total failure of congress to pass clean energy policy, what do we do?

BR - Think there will be a wake up call- eventually. Not just with this, but with for other things. Was against this coal plant, something about clean coal. How do you manage the political process? How do you make a difference? Run for congress. Do something. Give it a shot. It sounds simplistic. He thinks in 2nd term (Obama) there will be legislation for this.

Break

Lessons from history

Question on Hohokam and canals in Arizona desert (they built them 1200 years ago).

What happened to them?

GG - Not sure. Now saying that they don't think it was a big event that did them in- but a long term decline. a lot of them left, he says. Says that the tribes left are direct descendents of them.

Question (audience- requesting statement, not question)
Vernon Masayesva (Member of Hopi Tribe) - I am a member of the Hopi Tribe. We lived here in Arizona, Black Mesa, for a 1000 years. We are dry farmers. We don't need irrigation water. wWe have learned to grow crops -the 3 sisters. Corn- 6 varieties. Squash and beans. We have no lakes, running water. Desert. We are desert farmers. Guess what? We are here. We survived. How did we survive? We learned the mystery of water. Water is a mysterious force of which we know very little, if anything. Water is life. It is our breath. We are water people. We come from water. When we pass away, finish our journey on earth, we go back to water. The water in our body seperates from our earthly bodies. We join with our ancestors, the rain people. the cloud people. We journey back to the ocean. And we nourish all forms of life. Through rain and snow. We are water people. We are of water and water is of us. Water connects us. To other continents. Through the ocean. Represented by the water serpent. Water connects all of our parts together. Water connects us to the cosmos. To the planets. So the universe is in us and we are of the universe. And this is an important lesson we need to understand. We American poeple have total confidnece in science to fix the problem. We still have this misconception that we can manage water. We do not do that. Water manages us. And we all have to learn to live within the limits of water, fresh water, which is finite. And we have the ingenuity to do. Because the creator gifted us with 3 things... The spider, intelligence, the weaver, the maker, the scientist, the commnicator, the word smith. We are all word smiths here, today. We are all sharing in a dialogue. It begins with your thinking and it begins with breathing and the water in the air moves through your larnyx and up... Water is energy. Science has harnessed water to create weapons of mass destruction. But because we are water people, we have enormous energy in our bodies that we are not using. So if we can learn to connect the brian, the hand, the language, and us it in the right way. To keep the water serpent calm... That the weaver, the echoer keep the water serpent calm... (They are twins.) If one twin slips off, the snake will start to roll. If the 2 fall off, the snake will turn over and the world will turn upside down. We are the twins that should be keeping the serpent calm. We are not doing it. we are poking it by putting so much junk into the air that we are having climate change.

Moderator - Are we trying to do the impossible to fix nature?

GG - He has a point. The Hopi are still here. There is a point that technology has limits. But we cannot change american culture to live more like the Hopi. He thinks we have to continue to rely on systems we have.

PM - i think the biggest message I heard is that a lot of this is our individual adaptation, our expectation. Don't think we can put 9 to 15 billion people on planet and not have to adapt.

HC - The world will change a lot. This is a values discussion.

Moderator - Who should lead this, Governor?

BR - The people of this country should lead it. The message he got was (besides how we treat Native Americans) ... respect our resources, ecosystem, the wildlife, the land, the protection of water. one comment he made- we are trying to manage the water, but water is managing us. Maybe we should ponder what he said a bit more carefully.